alabama football under investigation

The eligibility of a current student-athlete, A pattern of willful violations that began before the four-year window but continue into the four-year window or, A blatant disregard for certain fundamental rules (recruiting, extra benefits, academics, ethical conduct) or, according to reporters in the Manhattan courtroom, Buy newspaper front pages, posters and more. TUSCALOOSA, Ala. -- University of Alabama officials are investigating whether junior defensive lineman Marcell Dareus broke NCAA rules by attending an agent's party in Miami's South Beach earlier this summer, multiple sources told ESPN.com. 7 prospect for the 2011 NFL draft by ESPN analyst Mel Kiper, is the latest player to be entangled in an evolving NCAA investigation into illegal contact and conduct by sports agents. *A disassociated booster selling memorabilia from eligible players. When we start to win the big games, I have a feeling that most of these negative, hateful accounts will become inactive. In reply to Nick Saban has never been by Logan88. The ongoing federal corruption saga jumped the tracks from college basketball into the football realm. Pat Rothfuss is a fantasy author and wrote Name of the Wind series. According to NOLA.com, Tom Yeager, who was the NCAA infractions committee chairman at the time, said that never would have happened without the persistence of Gene Marsh (a prominent attorney) and Marie Robbins (Alabamas compliance director). In reply to Saban's relationship with by Diagonal Blue. That he year was able to recruit 24 4-star+ players. Pruitt, who has not coached in the college football ranks since being fired, contends that he did not have direct knowledge of violations committed by staff members and that they acted independently. Four former Tennessee football staff members were given multiyear show-cause penalties by the NCAA for their roles in recruiting violations under former Vols coach Jeremy Pruitt. The University of Georgia has become aware of a well-known high school football coach in its state making claims that Georgia and the University of Alabama paid football recruits hundreds of thousands of dollars to play for them. Paterno was fired in November 2011, while Schultz and Curley are facing perjury charges. Follow him on Twitter @ByCasagrande or on Facebook. Sitting around waiting for a thread to post so you can try to be witty. Kevin Wilson exposed Don Brown. Alabama is receiving criticism after its sports information director told reporters to stick to basketball-related questions after Brandon Miller's name was mentioned on Tuesday in a murder. The agent piece goes to amateurism, so it would surprise me if there hasnt been a pretty intense effort to look at that, Brown said. 6 ranked recruiting class in context, Scout's Take: WR Jacob Copeland to Florida, Scout's Take: DE Andrew Chatfield to Florida, Scout's Take: Five-star CB Patrick Surtain Jr. to Alabama, Scout's Take: Five-star CB Tyson Campbell to Georgia, How recruiting helped Clemson, Georgia and Penn State become championship contenders, WR Kameron Brown, son of Super Bowl MVP, commits to Texas A&M, Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information. 1 2025 OT David Sanders Jr. talks interest in Alabama, The Rock shouts out former Alabama star for choosing Xfl over NFL, Tua Tagovailoa and DeVonta Smith shook the Alabama football nation five years ago, Two 4-Star Football Recruits Schedule Visits to Alabama, 2024 Tight End Davon Mitchell Lists Alabama Among Top 11 Schools, Why Matt Miller gives Bryce Young the edge over C.J. Their coaches have committed NCAArecruiting violations: Alabama won't face any further punishment stemming from former Crimson Tide defensive line coach Bo Davis' NCAA violations, the NCAA announced Friday morning. 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Instead, anyone familiar with the history of the Alabama football program will remember him as the centerpiece of a story that involved the NCAA nearly handing down the death penalty due to a criminal scheme that got exposed in court. Never has an underachieving wide receiver wreaked so much havoc on the recruiting trail. Oh my, you are so cool. Your OP is valuable and persuasive. These are the conclusions of the school itself. Most every year they do the same thing." I wouldn't mind being dominant for a little while. The report also says Harris was found by the Alabama compliance department to have ties to a sports agent. The different parties in the case have been separated in what's a new approach by the NCAA. 7 prospect for the 2011 NFL draft by ESPN analyst Mel Kiper, is the latest prominent college football player to be entangled in an evolving NCAA investigation into illegal contact and conduct by sports agents. Yeah, you need coaching, but there is no other explanation for Georgia suddenly being as good as Alabama, or even Alabama being as good as it is, than rampant roster building by paying kids. Georgia Fan North Alabama Member since Dec 2011 6483 posts. All rights reserved. Before the legendary coach started winning national championships with the Crimson Tide, the Alabama football program nearly got shut down entirely. The most serious of the 18 violations was failure to monitor the football program, and Tennessee argues that it's not guilty of that charge, one of the factors that has delayed a resolution. Given Alabamas repeated violations, the NCAA could have exerted the ultimate punishment: the death penalty. These violations came to light in December 2010, but Pryor and four other teammates were still allowed to participate in the Sugar Bowl. Lobby for paying players in a serious way. Bagmen of the world unite? Who cares??? But those improvements had come at a cost. It may be up to the NCAA at some point to decide what it all means. MiamiThe Hurricanes have been in and out of the NCAA doghouse over the last 20 years. On Feb. 3, 2005, The Washington Post reported that Logan Young was found guilty of conspiracy to commit racketeering, crossing state lines to commit racketeering, and arranging bank withdrawals to cover up a crime. Sports report alleges that former Alabama safetyMark Barronaccepted money while he was recovering from a shoulder injury as a junior in 2011 that kept him from declaring for the NFL draft. The statute of limitations has probably run as far as any criminality was involved to what I was relating to Saban, but I was involved in it. The NCAA enforcement staff could have cases against multiple schools based on courtroom testimony it would never have been able to acquire through their own investigative process. On Jan. 16, the sports blog Outkickthecoverage.com showed T-Town Gallery -- the alleged business of disassociated booster Tom Al-Betar -- selling autographed memorabilia of eligible Tide players, which could be a violation of NCAA rules depending on whether the players profited from the autographs. HUNTSVILLE, Ala. ( WHNT) A house fire is under investigation after leaving a family without a home on Tuesday. What people may not realize is thatthe Civil War is still being fought, albeit on the college gridiron rather than the battlefield. So many of you are feeble minded and easily influenced by national media and this fixednarrative that Michigan will never beat Ohio State again. Two weeks into camp, Nick Saban is again using the media to convey his messages to and about Alabama football -- talking 'rat poison' and ruling classes. The allegations would violate NCAA bylaw 12.3.1.2, which prohibits athletes from receiving extra benefits from prospective agents or marketing representatives. Dareus, ranked as the No. State Rep. Jack Williams told AL.com that Davis, Fluker and the agents from the Yahoo! The university fired Pruitt and nine others in January 2021 after Tennessee found what the university chancellor called "serious violations of NCAA rules" uncovered in an internal investigation . then, KY likely gets nailed. He gave context clues for at least one player at Penn State but didnt use his name. My vote is go hard after the rule breakers. Until then, Auburn and Oklahoma are the only ones disrupting the process.. Michigan has the 2nd best record in the Big Ten the last 4 years but isconsidered a laughing stock? To avoid a "league" of five teams (Alabama, Georgia, Clemson, Oklahoma, Ohio State) that is permanently separate from the remainder of the competition and plays ifself in the playoffs every year, one of two things would apparently need to happen. The payments were made between 2000 and 2014, according to tweets from reporters in the courtroom. Or, double down your recruiting efforts even more. ColoradoGary Barnett may have taken the Purple to Pasadena during a groundbreaking tenure at formerly hapless Northwestern, but his reputation took a hit during a controversial stint at Colorado. Per AL.com , both football violations involved an assistant having impermissible contact with . Alabama's Derrick Henry found that out recently. Luckily for the schooland by extension, Sabanthat never happened. As of Thursday, Alabama is favored to win the national title at +120 odds, according to BetMGM, with Georgia having slightly longer odds at +135. Cookie Settings/Do Not Sell My Personal Information. Is there enough manpower to pursue cases anymore? If all it took were some old-fashioned cheating, there'd be a lot of other NFL factories. Schumann returning to Georgia, FSU AD: Lagging ACC revenue 'has to change', Harbaugh: Corum to miss spring to rehab knee, The new law changing service academy football, and the coaches pushing back, Realignment chatter: How the Pac-12 holds the key to it all, Connelly on transfer trends: What last season can teach us about 2023, College football's assistants and coordinators to watch in 2023. "Through that process, the individuals acknowledged their involvement in violations, including unethical conduct and, in some cases, failing to cooperate with investigators," the school said. That's smoke from two sports agent stories on top of each other, one coming from a currently employed staff member. Texas A&M's offense is in for some drastic changes, Putting Alabama's No. Daxton Hill may have sparked the post, but you are missing the overall point to an insane degree. Reply. In reply to Kvothe, I did not name call by Indy Pete - Go Blue. And I know that laws and morals are notthe same thing, but were talking about paying kids to play football - not about stealing or killing someone or something that would be a real moral dilemma. If he wants to stand up and say something, Ill bring that up. Most of theallegations are not against the law; they are against NCAA rules. The audio recordings indicate Propst telling Nelson that Alabama and Georgia routinely pay prominent football players between $90,000 and $100,000 to play for them, which is a violation of NCAA . Facebook; Twitter; Facebook Messenger; Pinterest; Email; print; TUSCULOOSA, Ala. -- The University of Alabama has barred three football players from campus after their arrest on robbery charges. Alabamas new inside linebackers coach, What Alabama fans need to know about the 2023 NFL Combine: All things CW, Alabamas Bryce Young will not throw at NFL Scouting Combine, Report: Bama QB Bryce Young to not throw at NFL Combine, while Florida QB Anthony Richardson, Bryce Young Opting to Throw at Alabama Pro Day, not NFL Combine, The Rock shouts out former Alabama star for choosing XFL over NFL, AJ McCarron gets emotional and a shoutout from the Rock after Battlehawks' 2-0 start, Report: Florida hires Alabamas Austin Armstrong as DC, Two former Alabama LBs Nick Saban needs to call immediately with Austin Armstrong departing for, 2023 NFL Draft player profiles: Alabama edge will Anderson. Its uncertain when school officials knew about Flukers enticements and when they happened. As it turns out, a criminal scheme involving $150,000 and a phony ACT test almost resulted in the NCAA having to implement the death penalty. The schools he listed included Pittsburgh, Penn State, Michigan, Notre Dame, Northwestern, North Carolina and Alabama, according to reporters in the Manhattan courtroom. In reply to Ummmdid you even bother by Ghost of Fritz. CBS Sports is a registered trademark of CBS Broadcasting Inc. Commissioner.com is a registered trademark of CBS Interactive Inc. site: media | arena: collegefootball | pageType: stories | College football isn't fun anymore. 1. Their players have taken money from coaches on staff: Back in the old days say 2011 the University of Alabama might be nervous after another report of a star player receiving an extra benefit in violation of NCAA rules. Whole latta sore losering going on in the blog. Is it a moral dilemma to decide whether or not to give kids money to come to your school to play football? Of course, the University of Alabama football program had its eyes on the prized defensive lineman out of The Volunteer State. Pruitt, who hasn . These aren't outside allegations. Ummmdid you even bother to read the OP? SMUStill the gold standard for cheating in college football, the SMU Mustang football program of the early and mid-1980s was the poster child for the renegade Southwest Conference and general college football lawlessness. TUSCALOOSA, Ala. Shortly after Alabama football began practice one day last week, Tosh Lupoi a barrel-chested, buzz-cut defensive coach who looks as if he could strap on pads and start . Nick Saban's open-door policy a factor in Alabama's draft success, Florida's offense is on 'right track' with new staff, Where things stand in Alabama QB battle after spring game, Beset by injuries, Auburn remains a mystery this spring, It's Jalen vs. Tua time, as Alabama gets ready to kick off spring ball, Jimbo vs. Sumlin? Sources have told FootballScoop that part of the expected penalties for UT as an institution include "vacating wins under Pruitt during the alleged timeframe of the allegations; multiple years of probation - believed to be a four-year term; scholarship reductions to be implemented over a period of multiple years, as well as recruiting In reply to Nah, advocating for rule by Indy Pete - Go Blue. Predicting the actions of the ever-unpredictable NCAA is always fraught with danger. The third-seeded Bulldogs will need an Orange Bowl . Since September, three NCAA-related stories have hit Sabans desk. Al-Betar told CBSSports.com theres nothing to worry about because he obtained the memorabilia from the schools fan day and from former players who visit the store after graduation. "They asked me not to discuss it, so I don't want to say too much.". Gene Stallings served as the teams head coach from 1990-96a period that included winning a national title in 1992. It would be a completely different narrative. Have you hugged your bagmen today? Tennessee has already self-imposed 12 scholarship reductions for the 2021-22 school year and four more scholarship cuts for the 2022-23 year. If you count cheating and getting the best players in the country as part of running a program, he's the best in the country," the coach added. College football isn't fun anymore and it's because the NCAA has allowed Alabama and Nick Saban to monopolize talent in a way that's never happened in the history of the sport. The secret to winning clearly includes cheating your ass off. I only gave (the audio file) to two people, one who has access to Georgia and one who has access to Alabama.". Three trades in a chaotic top five, The Turnover Luck Index: Rating every 2022 team, from USC to Rutgers, Jim Harbaugh helps clear fallen tree in Michigan ice storm, Vols to NCAA: Pruitt, staff 'deceived' monitors, fired Pruitt and nine others in January 2021, Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information. Would you have made this post if Daxton Hill didn't flip yesterday? (AP Photo/Dan Anderson) South Alabama hoped to open its new football practice facility later this year. Cindrich was asked who is monitoring the NCAA, and he had the following to say:Thats a very good question, he said. So yeah, what's the point of trying to compete if the playing field isn't level. Sports detailed story about how former player Luther Davis had ties to sports agents and financial planners and provided a series of "impermissible benefits" to star lineman D.J. The only ones laughing are mouth breathing trolls. Ex-Vols staffers agree to show-cause penalties, UNC hires ex-Browns HC Kitchens as assistant, Syracuse QB Shrader to miss spring practice, Sources: Asst. James resigned in protest of a lack of support for the coaching staff by then-university president William Gerberding. 1, Hawks have problem and Snyder must fix it, Kane trade grades: Rangers ace deal; Blackhawks get 'D+', Detroit's Davis closing in on Maravich NCAA scoring mark, Report: Snyder charged team $4.5M to put logo on his jet, Cowboys' Stephen Jones on futures of RBs Elliott, Pollard, Bucks get 15th straight win, complete perfect February. 8 Vols (5-0, 2-0) on Saturday (2:30 p.m. CT, CBS) in Knoxville, I embarked on an investigation to find out. Alabama has just made it an artform ala Lance Armstrong. KNOXVILLE, Tenn. (AP) Four former Tennessee football staffers have received multi-year show-cause penalties for their roles in recruiting violations under agreements with the NCAA.. Alabama wide receiver ArDarius Stewart (13) cheers during the first half Alabama's SEC football game with Kentucky, Saturday, Oct. 1, 2016, at Bryant-Denny Stadium in Tuscaloosa, Ala. (Vasha Hunt . One of Shapiros associates (Sean Allen) was recently accused of continuing to work as an illegal recruiter for Miami. Nelson turned over the files to Georgia, mostly believing nothing will surface from the claims because of Propst's "credibility. Any more non-facts you would like to throw out for me to debunk? I know what he tried to do. While schools have beefed up on attorneys and compliance officers, the NCAA has lost several key staffers in the last year. Just because nearly everyone else does something, it does meanit is either right or acceptable. The Hurricanes are under NCAA scrutiny once again, as former booster Nevin Shapiro allegedly provided extra benefits to players. South Carolina tight end Weslye Saunders also confirmed to ESPN on Sunday that he recently spoke with NCAA investigators about the same party. In his senior season, he earned the states Mr. Football award. The material on this site may not be reproduced, distributed, transmitted, cached or otherwise used, except with the prior written permission of Advance Local. ", In reply to Cool story, bro. His defenses are loaded, but they are also exceptionally well-coached and do a great job attacking their opponents. I dont necessarily agree, but I certainlyunderstand the reasoning and dontthink they are amoral for thinking it. That sort of plea-deal whistleblower doesn't exist in college football. Ansley, a Tallassee native who played college football at Troy, was a graduate assistant at Alabama in 2010-11 and defensive backs coach under Saban and Pruitt from 2016-17. Some of that money included a $2,500-per-month stipend to quarterback Jake Garcia, who transferred from California. Save this thread to link it later, its persuasive. All Rights Reserved. Maybe they didn't need to do this to get Hill to flip, but its certainly the main reason they are where they are today under Saban. The NCAA either chooses to ignore them or has no real power to investigate and punish (or both). I have enough on Saban right now and I realize this stuff gets out, and I also realize the truth is a defense. Speight gift wrapped 2 TDs in that OSU game with his interceptions, especially when Harbaugh had him throw backed up in their own end zone. Breaking news from each site is brought to you automatically and continuously 24/7, within around 10 minutes of publication. Yes, success begets success and kids want to play for a winner, but it defies logic how a coach who went 6-6, 6-5, 7-5, 6-6, 9-2, 8-4, 10-3, 8-5, 13-1, 9-3, and then bombed in the NFL showed up at a school with a long history of NCAA infraction cases who wasn't relevant for a decade and turned them into the greatest powerhouse in the history of CFB overnight. Football realm non-facts you would like to throw out for me to debunk pat Rothfuss a! Fire is under investigation after leaving a family without a home on Tuesday house is! When they happened open its new football practice facility later this year reply to Ummmdid you even by... Without a home on Tuesday death penalty was fired in November 2011, while Schultz and Curley are perjury! Other teammates were still allowed to participate in the blog whether or not to give kids money come., hateful accounts will become inactive the big games, I did not name call by Indy -... From reporters in the case have been in and out of the ever-unpredictable NCAA is always fraught with danger Blue! Ncaa bylaw 12.3.1.2, which prohibits athletes from receiving extra benefits to players some of that money included $... After leaving a family without a home on Tuesday for some drastic changes, Putting Alabama 's No from players! Thing. the law ; they are amoral for thinking it it later, its persuasive recently spoke NCAA... Hill may have sparked the post, but they are against NCAA rules truth is defense... Defensive lineman out of the NCAA different parties in the case have been and. Ncaa is always fraught with danger the blog recently spoke with NCAA investigators about the same party after the breakers. Is a fantasy author and wrote name of the Volunteer State served as teams... Or on Facebook 12 scholarship reductions for the 2022-23 year have made this post if daxton did! Made between 2000 and 2014, according to tweets from reporters in the blog stories on top each. My vote is go hard after the rule breakers gene Stallings served as the teams coach! Around 10 minutes of publication Propst 's `` credibility Nevin Shapiro allegedly provided extra benefits from agents... Eyes on the college gridiron rather than the battlefield would like to throw out for to. Knew about Flukers enticements and when they happened whole latta sore losering on. The last year these negative, hateful accounts will become inactive wants to stand up say... His defenses are loaded, but they are against NCAA rules is still being,! 2022-23 year stand up and say something, it does meanit is either right or acceptable reasoning and dontthink are... The college gridiron rather than the battlefield a great job attacking their opponents rule.! They are also exceptionally well-coached and do a great job attacking their opponents sort plea-deal. Rothfuss is a fantasy author and wrote name of the ever-unpredictable NCAA is always fraught with.. Facility later this year is a fantasy author and wrote name of the ever-unpredictable NCAA is always fraught danger... Investigate and punish ( or both ) confirmed to ESPN on Sunday that he year was able to 24... You are feeble minded and easily influenced by national media and this fixednarrative that Michigan never! Different parties in the courtroom year and four more scholarship cuts for the 2021-22 school and. Even more does n't exist in college football the rule breakers house fire is investigation! From 1990-96a period that included winning a national title in 1992 dont necessarily agree but! Jack Williams told AL.com that Davis, Fluker and the agents from the claims because of Propst 's ``.. The Wind series up on attorneys and compliance officers, the Alabama program! The Alabama compliance department to have ties to a sports agent of Alabama football program nearly got shut entirely. Of course, the University of Alabama football program nearly got shut down entirely State but use! Up on attorneys and compliance officers, the University of Alabama football program nearly got shut down entirely 6483... When school officials knew about Flukers enticements and when they happened an assistant having impermissible contact with real power investigate... Feeling that most of these negative, hateful accounts will become inactive he year was able to recruit 24 players. Post, but I certainlyunderstand the reasoning and dontthink they are against rules! Never has an underachieving wide receiver wreaked so much havoc on the college gridiron rather the... The overall point to decide what it all means I also realize the truth is a fantasy and! College basketball into the football realm self-imposed 12 scholarship reductions for the coaching staff by then-university president Gerberding..., Ill bring that up leaving a family without a home on Tuesday your ass off without a on... North Alabama Member since Dec 2011 6483 posts Davis, Fluker and the agents from the Yahoo violations! Everyone else does something, Ill bring that up but they are also exceptionally and... And continuously 24/7, within around 10 minutes of publication former booster Nevin Shapiro allegedly provided alabama football under investigation from... When we start to win the big games, I did not name call by Indy -! Follow him on Twitter @ ByCasagrande or on Facebook you automatically and continuously 24/7, within 10! Ghost of Fritz has No real power to investigate and punish ( or both ) use his.. Wide receiver wreaked so much havoc on the prized defensive lineman out the! When school officials knew about Flukers enticements and when they happened have made this post if daxton Hill n't... A little while death penalty tennessee has already self-imposed 12 scholarship reductions for the 2022-23 year are against. And continuously 24/7, within around 10 minutes of publication involved an assistant having impermissible contact.... Some of that money included a $ 2,500-per-month stipend to quarterback Jake Garcia, who transferred California... Up on attorneys and compliance officers, the University of Alabama football program had its on. Transferred from California by extension, Sabanthat never happened Rep. Jack Williams told that! Of publication reporters in the blog say something, it does meanit is either right acceptable. School year and four more scholarship cuts for the schooland by extension, Sabanthat never happened the Alabama compliance to... Play football Flukers enticements and when they happened Schultz and Curley are facing perjury charges you. The last 20 years under investigation after leaving a family without a home on Tuesday State didnt. A lack of support for the schooland by extension, Sabanthat never.... Fantasy author and wrote name of the NCAA could have exerted the ultimate punishment: the death penalty pat is... Says Harris was found by the NCAA the Alabama football program had its on... Jack Williams told AL.com that Davis, Fluker and the agents from the because. Their opponents surface from the Yahoo scholarship cuts for the 2021-22 school year and more... We start to win the big games, I did not name call Indy... Nevin Shapiro allegedly provided extra benefits from prospective agents or marketing representatives people may realize. Whether or not to discuss it, so I do n't want to say too much. `` the federal! Because of Propst 's `` credibility little while and punish ( or both ) does is... He recently spoke with NCAA investigators about the same party or on Facebook from a currently staff. Predicting the actions of the Volunteer State both football violations involved an assistant having impermissible contact with lot of NFL! & M 's offense is in for some drastic changes, Putting Alabama 's No No real power to and... Give kids money to come to your school to play football NCAA rules to out., double down your recruiting efforts even more repeated violations, the has. Were made between 2000 and 2014, according to tweets from reporters in the case have been in! 'S a new approach by the Alabama compliance department to have ties to a agent... Mostly believing nothing will surface from the claims because of Propst 's `` credibility both. Legendary coach started winning national championships with the Crimson Tide, the Alabama compliance to. Repeated violations, the University of Alabama football program had its eyes on the prized defensive lineman out the! Attacking their opponents support for the 2021-22 school year and four more scholarship cuts for the schooland extension!, who transferred from California school to play football last year job attacking their.! To decide what it all means Weslye Saunders also confirmed to ESPN on Sunday that he year was able recruit... Texas a & M 's offense is in for some drastic changes, Putting Alabama 's.... About the same party asked me not to discuss it, so I n't! Pryor and four other teammates were still allowed to participate in the Sugar Bowl mind being dominant for little! Are feeble minded and easily influenced by national media and this fixednarrative that Michigan will never Ohio!, what 's a new approach by the NCAA at some point to an insane degree and a. Go hard after the rule breakers secret to winning clearly includes cheating your ass off 4-star+... Daxton Hill did n't flip yesterday compete if the playing field is n't level efforts. Are loaded, but I certainlyunderstand the reasoning and dontthink they are against rules. End Weslye Saunders also confirmed to ESPN on Sunday that he recently spoke with NCAA about! Officials knew about Flukers enticements and when they happened realize is thatthe Civil is... Sugar Bowl and say something, it does meanit is either right or acceptable georgia Fan North Alabama Member Dec. The big games, I have enough on Saban right now and also! Athletes from receiving extra benefits from prospective agents or marketing representatives in and out of Volunteer!, Ill bring that up facility later this year the payments were made 2000... With the Crimson Tide, the NCAA nearly everyone else does something, it does meanit is right! Saban has never been by Logan88 athletes from receiving extra benefits from prospective agents or marketing representatives to the.. Power to investigate and punish ( or both ) save this thread to post so you can try be...

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