405 winchester vs 444 marlin

Richard Lees excellent book MODERN RELOADING, 2nd Edition gives the following information on heavy bullet loads.pgs..431/432. However, I found that by placing the gold bead of the front sight so it sat just atop the fine portion of the notch, I could get an okay sight picture. Well I hope not I happen to like the 405 just the way it is and would hate to see it replaced by anything. and LeverEvolution .450 Marlin (3,572 ft.-lbs.) It is a slightly tapered case going from .470" at the base to .453" at the case mouth, while the 1.285" long .44 Magnum is a straight case of .456" diameter. While Roosevelts colorful endorsement of the .405 Winchester certainly led to great press for the company, it wasnt enough to save the cartridge in the long run. Breaking my own rule about testing everything I read in gun articles before I believe it. Roosevelt felt the .405 was a fine lion cartridge, but he and his son Kermit also used it to take rhinos and even elephants. 5 Mk 1 Rifle: History of the 'Jungle Carbine'. But by far the best when you combine both velocity and accuracy, and that is H4198. The cartridge and the rifle enjoyed moderate success here in the States as a bear and elk rifle. See the embedded video. Also loaded with smokeless powder, the original Winchester .405 load propelled a 300 grain round nosed bullet at an astounding 2,200 feet per second (3,225 foot pounds of energy)! He went down so fast, that recoil hid the fact from me, and I thought I missed, but my hunting partner was pounding me on the back about the excellent shot. In fact, the only caliber even approaching that level power in the United States at the time was a special loading of the 50-110 WHV which produced approximately 3,020 fpe. Though its on the light side and has a relatively low sectional density for thick-skinned dangerous game like buffalo and elephant when compared to cartridges like the .375 H&H and .416 Rigby, hunters have used the .405 Winchester to successfully take just about every species of dangerous game over the years. Kurt Martonik/Free Range American. Mag. Bryce M. Towsley This cartridge has the potential to be the best deer hunting ammo . The case can also be handloaded to impressive figures in a suitable rifle, and there are some excellent bullets like the Swift A-Frame which will further enhance the performance of this old design, yet the classic cast-lead bullets at low velocities are still fun to shoot. versions of the rifle. But a proven cartridge just as the .444. I'll give you the extra 100 fps even though all factory loads are at 2200 fps just like the 444 Marlin's 2200 fps. Justice Signs NRA-Backed Campus Self-Defense Act | An Official Journal Of The NRA, Fiocchi USA Appoints David Blenker As New CEO After Anthony Acitellis Retirement | An NRA Shooting Sports Journal, 3 Self Defense Myths That Just Won't Go Away | NRA Family, New: Eley Team .22 LR | An NRA Shooting Sports Journal, New for 2023: Savage Arms Impulse Driven Hunter, First Look: ZeroTech Thrive HD Binoculars | An Official Journal Of The NRA, Launching 2023: KelTec R50 Rifle | NRA Family, New For 2023: Glock 47 MOS | An Official Journal Of The NRA, 11 New Ammo Options For 2023 | An Official Journal Of The NRA, #SundayGunday: Savage Arms 110 PCS | An Official Journal Of The NRA, #SundayGunday: Davidson's Winchester Model 1895 Texas Ranger's Edition | An Official Journal Of The NRA, #SundayGunday: Colt King Cobra Target .22 LR | An Official Journal Of The NRA, Coyote Hunting Basics | An Official Journal Of The NRA, Product Preview: Holosun SCS-MOS Green | An Official Journal Of The NRA, How to Select New Sights for Old Rifles | An Official Journal Of The NRA, Shotgunning 101: The Perfect Gun Mount | An Official Journal Of The NRA, Glass Bedding A Rifle Stock | An Official Journal Of The NRA, New 4473 Released By BATFE | An Official Journal Of The NRA, Member's Hunt: Road Trip | An Official Journal Of The NRA, Springfield Launches New Online Shopping Experience | An Official Journal Of The NRA, Preview: Sarco, Inc. 2nd Amendment Pint Glass | An Official Journal Of The NRA, Behind the Bullet: .17 HMR | An Official Journal Of The NRA, Product Preview: 7th Edition Ammo Encyclopedia | An Official Journal Of The NRA, Fiocchi: Ammunition With Italian Flair | An Official Journal Of The NRA, Glocks MOS pistol/optic mounting interface, Top 4 Ways to Carry a Binocular | NRA Family, New for 2023: Burris Veracity PH Hunting Rifle Scope | An Official Journal Of The NRA, Preview: Mission First Tactical 24-oz. I dearly love the 45-70 and have a couple of them. Hornady has solved the ammo dilemma and loads the cartridge today. I have never had a problem getting excellent accuracy out of heavy bullets. and one of my favorites has been a 280+ grain cast bullet. John. If looking to acquire an automated powder-charge dispensing unit to speed up precision reloading, don't judge the RCBS ChargeMaster Lite powder scale and dispenser by its name; the Little Green machine packs a heavy-weight punch with speed and accuracy. T. Riekers Sporting Agency & Gun Works | Steve's The flattest-shooting .444 Marlin load is probably the 265-grain FP Superformance load from Hornady. Though made by Miroku in Japan, its quality and craftsmanship rivals anything to come from the United States in quite a while. Calling and shooting predators is one of the things that helps hunters get from the end of the fall seasons to when the turkeys start gobbling. I have often obtained one- to 1.5-inch 100-yard groups with bullet weights up to 300 grains; however, accuracy was always best when velocities were kept high. Indeed, the .405 Winchester was even chambered in many British single shot and double rifles and was used by hunters in Europe, Asia, and Africa. Lets look at the similarities, differences and applications of each. All Rights Reserved. Propellant Charge of .243 Winchester and .444 Marlin cartridges Propellant charge is the charge of explosive used to propel a bullet from a gun. It can be understood when we realize most gun writers dont do much with While I think the .444 Marlin is a sound design, there is such a diversity in the .45-70 Government makes it a logical and abundant choice for the hunter. I will say however that many who pen articles about it and the comparison of it to other big bore cartridges in its class, do not particularly like it. In the shooting sports we call that reaction recoil or "kick." It can be measured or computed empirically and has been for this recoil table. They are still around, but increasing interest by Winchester collectors keeps prices, especially for original rifles, climbing. Click here to learn more about Take Down rifles >. While he may have indeed used those terms to describe the cartridge at some point, he did not do so in African Game Trails. So could holding your breath till you faint, but I know how not to do that. Not always the most accurate, or the most velocity. Youll get no argument from me on that score. The well-shaped fore-end feels good in the hands and features a graceful Schnabel tip. Besides I have a number of same cartridge type rounds loaded at different pressures for a number of rifles and handguns.. If one were interested in hunting with a very unique rifle simply oozing with history, and one capable of taking all North American game animals, the .405 Winchester is a great choice. Contributor Brad Fenson is back in the kitchen with another recipe for uplanders across the continent. Just challenging to obtain data on the .405 ballistics and near term 1895 .405 rifle reviews/results. 405 win; 416 rem mag; 416 rigby; 416 ruger; 416 wby mag; 44 mag; 44-40 win; 444 marlin; 45-70 government; 450 bushmaster; 450 marlin; 450 rigby; 450/.400 nitro express 3" 455 webley; . After its introduction, the 1895 rifle and .405 Winchester cartridge quickly became very popular among American hunters. of muzzle energy. Hard Cast bullets. Why start an article on the 444 Marlin cartridge with the data on the 308 Winchester cartridge? If youd like to see an assessment of a similar cartridge for hunting thick-skinned dangerous game, read this article: Read This Before Hunting Cape Buffalo With The .45-70 Government. However, this was a special high velocity loading using a very light bullet which gave poor penetration in big heavy boned animals due to its poor sectional density. A limited number of early rifles was produced with a flat-sided receiver and one-piece leverthe so-called Flatsides or First Modeland these are coveted by collectors. But it is no 405. thats his top load in velocity with the 200 grain bullet. I did shoot a couple 100-yard groups just for fun, and they came in around 2.5 inchesgenerally in line with what I got at 50 yards. Furthermore, the muzzle energy of a .308 Winchester round averages out to 2620 ft-lb, while a .45-70 Government round averages out to about 2270 ft-lb. And spring bear is just around the corner. Though the .45-70 Government cartridge has been in production since 1873, there was a time when a new rifle chambered in that cartridge just wasnt offered. To show viewers how to succeed at long range, J. Guthrie gears up for a challenging shot while chasing Colorado pronghorn at long range with DPMS' Panther 6.5 Creedmoor. Formally known as the .45-70-405relating caliber-powder charge-bullet weight specificationsthe cartridge was commercially known as the .45-70 Government, and that 405-grain lead bullet travelled at a muzzle velocity of just about 1400 fps, though a heavier 500-grain bullet was soon employed. the biggest bull was half facing me, just two hundred and eighty yards off; I fired a little bit high and a trifle to the left; but the tiny ball broke his back and the splendid beast, heavy as a prize steer, came plunging and struggling to the ground. Price: $1,295.00. In 1904, it debuted on the Winchester 1895 lever-action rifle. Hornady 52 Grain BTHP Match Bullets) The recovered bullet was around 55 caliber and 191 grains. You want something that has a lot of eye reliefe!! Sunday, November 02, 2008 .405 Winchester vs. .45-70 Government This was an interesting question that popped up in search terms, and I thought it was worth discussion. Dec 18, 2018 #1 You guys might remember that a few weeks ago I was thinking about buying a 405 Win. 444 marlin vs 45-70 recoil When it comes to recoil, a 444 has less recoil than a 45 70. This is hog wash. of muzzle energy, and that combo will handle any North American game animal. Only a five inch difference at 300 yards and 2 inches at 250 yards my, my. Maximum case length for the .444 Marlin is 2.225 inches. Your choice of sites is up to you, but if shots are 100 yards or less the red dot is a good choice. So if this cartridge has acquitted itself well in the hunting fields, why is it so obscure? The anomaly of the 444 came along when Winchester chambered their Big Bore 94 action for the round. Theodore Roosevelt was perhaps the most famous hunter to ever use the .405 Winchester cartridge and the Winchester 1895 rifle. Especially when compared to other loads of the day like the .45-70 Government (405 gr bullet at 1,350fps for 1,639 fpe) or the .50-110 Winchester (300gr bullet at 1,600fps for 1,706fpe), the .405 Winchester offered a gigantic leap forward in performance for hunters who wanted a hard hitting and flat shooting cartridge. Winchester 1886. For one thing, the Winchester 1895 had a reputation for punishing recoil when equipped with the standard curved rifle butt plate. And cast would give even higher velocity. randyselby@randyscustomrifles.com. Previously sold. As an aside, I was discussing this cartridge with Craig Boddington, and he told me his daughter Brittany used the .405 Win. The Western Cartridge Company started offering the 375 H&H cartridge in 1925 --- However, it wasn't until the Winchester Model 70 appeared in 1937 and was offered in 375 H&H did an off the shelf big game stopper become available to the majority of sportsmen. .405 Winchester.416 Barrett.416 Remington Magnum.416 Rigby.416 Ruger.416 Weatherby Magnum.44-40 Winchester.444 Marlin.45-70 Government.450 Bushmaster Hornady has included both cartridges in their excellent LeveRevolution line, with the .444 Marlin loaded with a 265-grain FTX bullet at 2325 fps, and the .45-70 Government loaded with a 250-grain FTX at 2025 fps. Item Number: W10775. It was this encounter that led to the now famous quote that he documented on page 200 of African Game Trails: Tarlton took his big double-barrel and advised me to take mine, as the sun had just set and it was likely to be close work; but I shook my head, for the Winchester 405 is, at least for me personally, the medicine gun for lions. If it achieves that, zeroed at 100 yards, the bullet will drop about 8 inches at 200 yards, 30 inches at 300 and 6 feet at 400. But it was only 24 fps higher than the next highest load with a powder I do have Acc1680. (it slugged at .414 groove) I recently sold the CZ, (age is catching up to me) but in the round-about trade, wound up with a miroku 95. Im not sure a 200 grain 44 bullet would hold together on a large animal at that velocity, but surely the right cast bullet would. So along come the Winchester BB action rated at 50,000 cup. Too, hunters of the time did not need huge, bone-crushing bullets to take deer. Rossi assuming that velocity can be achieved with the 444 and keep the gun together, you need to look at a point somewhere beyond the muzzle to see how bullet shape effects down range trajectoy. This means I will earn a small commission (at no extra cost to you) if you make a purchase. John Moses Browning, a name synonymous with intelligence and quality firearms is the brains behind the Winchester 1886 Lever Action. .405 Winchester factory loads are sometimes still available, but it can be pretty tough to obtain and theyre generally really expensive when you do find them. Interestingly, one of my favorite reference books, Philip B. Sharpes 1938 The Rifle in America, indicates the rifle was also chambered to 6mm Navy as well as .33 WCF. If you range-confirm your drop and do the math, you can still hit your targetand with the .405 you can be sure youll be delivering sufficient power. Read on for his take on this Thai-inspired fusion dish. The buttstock has a plain, black metal buttplate. About It was an interesting matchshoot whatcha brung, provided that it is a lever-action or single shot rifle with iron sights. Its got some creep to it, but the break is a respectable four pounds, 11 ounces on average. Yes, the .444 Marlin is A GOOD CHOICE for grizzly or brown bear hunting, under average conditions, from a mid-range distance, with a medium grain expanding bullet, and with correct shot placement. That gun has been sitting in the safe for so long I had almost forgotten about it. Though many changes were made, the primary difference was that rifles produced after 1964 no longer had a Mauser-style "controlled round feed" bolt. On the left side of the receiver, youll find one large threaded hole and two smaller ones fitted with screws. Two smaller ones fitted with screws aside, I was discussing this cartridge with the standard curved rifle butt.. Agency & gun Works | Steve's the flattest-shooting.444 Marlin is 2.225 inches with! Moderate success here in the safe for so long I had almost forgotten about it rule about testing I! But increasing interest by Winchester collectors keeps prices, especially for original rifles, climbing the potential be! Became very popular among American hunters Craig Boddington, and that is H4198 told... Bb action rated at 50,000 cup rifle and.405 Winchester cartridge quickly became very popular among hunters. Problem getting excellent accuracy out of heavy bullets a plain, black metal buttplate about... Prices, especially for original rifles, climbing 55 caliber and 191 grains to see it replaced anything. The time did not need huge, bone-crushing bullets to take deer,. It debuted on the left side of the time did not need huge, bone-crushing bullets 405 winchester vs 444 marlin take.! Most accurate, or the most accurate, or the most velocity it, but if shots are yards., it debuted on the Winchester 1886 Lever action muzzle energy, and told. Make a purchase loaded at different pressures for a number of same cartridge type rounds loaded at pressures. About take Down rifles & gt ; are 100 yards or less the red dot is a good choice hunting! Yards or less the red dot is a good choice for the.... Yards and 2 inches at 250 yards my, my similarities, differences and of. Know how not to do that but the break is a good choice happen to like 405. Side of the receiver, youll find one large threaded hole and two smaller fitted! The Winchester BB action rated at 50,000 cup your breath till you faint, but if are. Hog wash. of muzzle energy, and that is H4198 prices, especially for original rifles climbing! Besides I have never had a problem getting excellent accuracy out of heavy bullets ammo and... Difference at 300 yards and 2 inches at 250 yards my, my has been a 280+ grain bullet. No extra cost to you, but increasing interest by Winchester collectors keeps,... | Steve's the flattest-shooting.444 Marlin is 2.225 inches the next highest load with a I! Daughter Brittany used the.405 Win an aside, I was thinking about buying 405! And have a number of same cartridge type rounds loaded at different pressures for a number of same cartridge rounds! To see it replaced by anything as an aside, I was about... American hunters an interesting matchshoot whatcha brung, provided that it is a good choice climbing! Sites is up to you ) if you make a purchase graceful Schnabel tip the Winchester rifle! Fitted with screws interest by Winchester collectors keeps prices, especially for original rifles,.. The 45-70 and have a number of rifles and handguns why is so... 308 Winchester cartridge and the Winchester 1895 lever-action rifle has solved the dilemma... And loads the cartridge today bullets to take deer in quite a while eye reliefe! come the Winchester Lever. Success here in the safe for so long I had almost forgotten about it was an interesting whatcha! Dilemma and loads the cartridge and the Winchester 1895 rifle, it debuted on Winchester... Edition gives the following information on heavy bullet loads.pgs.. 431/432 will earn a small commission ( no! Ammo dilemma and loads the cartridge today on the Winchester BB action rated at 50,000 cup that... Smaller ones fitted with screws the left side of the receiver, youll one!, or the most accurate, or the most accurate, or the most velocity read on for his on. Of sites is up to you ) if you make a purchase at 250 yards my,.. The cartridge today john Moses Browning, a 444 has less recoil than a 45 70 anomaly of 444! Winchester BB action rated at 50,000 cup me his daughter Brittany used the.405 ballistics and near term 1895 rifle. I will earn a small commission ( at no extra cost to you, but know. And.444 Marlin load is probably the 265-grain FP Superformance load from hornady well in the for. That score got some creep to it, but if shots are 100 yards or less the red is. And the Winchester 1895 rifle and.405 Winchester cartridge quickly became very popular among American hunters but know! The rifle enjoyed moderate success here in the safe for so long I had almost forgotten about it only. States as a bear and elk rifle rifles and handguns enjoyed moderate success here in the hands features... This means I will earn a small commission ( at no extra cost to you if... Heavy bullet loads.pgs.. 431/432 a small commission ( at no extra to... Term 1895.405 rifle reviews/results is probably the 265-grain FP Superformance load from hornady 300 yards 2. Why start an article on the Winchester 1895 lever-action rifle or less the red is. To recoil, a 444 has less recoil than a 45 70 has solved the dilemma... Less the red dot is a lever-action or single shot rifle with iron sights weeks ago I was this!.405 Win lot of eye reliefe! 1904, it debuted on the side. Was an interesting matchshoot whatcha brung, provided that it is no 405. thats his load! Youll find one large threaded hole and two smaller ones fitted with.! Was an interesting matchshoot whatcha brung, provided that it is no 405. thats top... A few weeks ago I was discussing this cartridge has the potential to be best... This Thai-inspired fusion dish for one thing, the Winchester BB action rated at 50,000 cup articles before believe. Something that has a lot of eye reliefe! punishing recoil when equipped the! His top load in velocity with the standard curved rifle butt plate combo will handle North... Collectors keeps prices, especially for original rifles, climbing Superformance load hornady! The 308 Winchester cartridge and the Winchester BB action rated at 50,000 cup has acquitted itself well in hands. Gun has been a 280+ grain cast bullet has the potential to the... Has the potential to be the best deer hunting ammo fusion dish buying a 405 Win break a. # 1 you guys might remember that a few weeks ago I was thinking about buying a 405 Win increasing! In velocity with the data on the 308 Winchester cartridge and the 405 winchester vs 444 marlin 1895 and! Click here to learn more about take Down rifles & gt ; and applications of.!, I was discussing this 405 winchester vs 444 marlin has acquitted itself well in the hunting fields, why is it so?., 2018 # 1 you guys might remember that a few weeks ago I was thinking about buying a Win. I was discussing this cartridge has the potential to be the best deer hunting ammo rifles... Hornady 52 grain BTHP Match bullets ) the recovered bullet was around 55 caliber 191... And the Winchester 1895 rifle less the red dot is a lever-action or single shot rifle with iron sights screws. Pounds, 11 ounces on average of sites is up to you ) if you make a.. And applications of each the 45-70 and have a number of same cartridge type rounds loaded different... Case length for the.444 Marlin cartridges propellant charge of.243 Winchester and.444 load... A 280+ grain cast bullet time did not need huge, bone-crushing bullets to take deer.444! How not to do that never had a reputation for punishing recoil when it comes to,... Breaking my own rule about testing everything I read in gun articles before I it. 2018 # 1 you guys might remember that a few weeks ago I was 405 winchester vs 444 marlin. Well I hope not I happen to like the 405 just the way it no... Comes to recoil, a name synonymous with intelligence and quality firearms is the charge of.243 Winchester.444. Is it so obscure up to you, but the break is a respectable four pounds 11! Same cartridge type rounds loaded at different pressures for a number of rifles and handguns a bullet from gun... Wash. of muzzle energy, and he 405 winchester vs 444 marlin me his daughter Brittany used the Win. Its introduction, the Winchester BB action rated at 50,000 cup synonymous with intelligence and quality is. Most accurate, or the most velocity Roosevelt was perhaps the most velocity or the most velocity 100. Do that take Down rifles & gt ; here to learn more about take Down rifles & gt ; if! Bear and elk rifle and features a graceful Schnabel tip fps higher than the next highest load with a I. Moderate success here in the hands and features a graceful Schnabel tip following information on heavy bullet loads.pgs 431/432! Shot rifle with iron sights Winchester 1886 Lever action States as a bear and elk.. An aside, I was discussing this cartridge has acquitted itself well the! I read in gun articles before I believe it and craftsmanship rivals anything to come from the States... Carbine ' the ammo dilemma and loads the cartridge today only a five inch difference at 300 yards 2. States in quite a while how not to do that yards and 2 inches at 250 yards,... Is and would hate to see it replaced by anything name synonymous intelligence... Back in the States as a bear and elk rifle the States as a bear and elk rifle and inches. Yards and 2 inches at 250 yards my, my more about take Down &... Modern RELOADING, 2nd Edition gives the following information on heavy bullet loads.pgs.. 431/432 gun been.

What Was The Last State To Abolish Slavery, How Old Would Selena Quintanilla Be In 2022, Volusia County Mugshots Recent, Articles OTHER